nhaliday + concurrency   71

REST is the new SOAP | Hacker News
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21 days ago by nhaliday
"Performance Matters" by Emery Berger - YouTube
Stabilizer is a tool that enables statistically sound performance evaluation, making it possible to understand the impact of optimizations and conclude things like the fact that the -O2 and -O3 optimization levels are indistinguishable from noise (sadly true).

Since compiler optimizations have run out of steam, we need better profiling support, especially for modern concurrent, multi-threaded applications. Coz is a new "causal profiler" that lets programmers optimize for throughput or latency, and which pinpoints and accurately predicts the impact of optimizations.

- randomize extraneous factors like code layout and stack size to avoid spurious speedups
- simulate speedup of component of concurrent system (to assess effect of optimization before attempting) by slowing down the complement (all but that component)
- latency vs. throughput, Little's law
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8 weeks ago by nhaliday
Parallel Computing: Theory and Practice
by Umut Acar who also co-authored a different book on parallel algorithms w/ Guy Blelloch from a more high-level and functional perspective
unit  books  cmu  cs  programming  tcs  algorithms  concurrency  c(pp)  divide-and-conquer  libraries  complexity  time-complexity  data-structures  orders  graphs  graph-theory  trees  models  functional  metal-to-virtual  systems 
11 weeks ago by nhaliday
Two Performance Aesthetics: Never Miss a Frame and Do Almost Nothing - Tristan Hume
I’ve noticed when I think about performance nowadays that I think in terms of two different aesthetics. One aesthetic, which I’ll call Never Miss a Frame, comes from the world of game development and is focused on writing code that has good worst case performance by making good use of the hardware. The other aesthetic, which I’ll call Do Almost Nothing comes from a more academic world and is focused on algorithmically minimizing the work that needs to be done to the extent that there’s barely any work left, paying attention to the performance at all scales.

[ed.: Neither of these exactly matches TCS performance PoV but latter is closer (the focus on diffs is kinda weird).]

...

Never Miss a Frame

In game development the most important performance criteria is that your game doesn’t miss frame deadlines. You have a target frame rate and if you miss the deadline for the screen to draw a new frame your users will notice the jank. This leads to focusing on the worst case scenario and often having fixed maximum limits for various quantities. This property can also be important in areas other than game development, like other graphical applications, real-time audio, safety-critical systems and many embedded systems. A similar dynamic occurs in distributed systems where one server needs to query 100 others and combine the results, you’ll wait for the slowest of the 100 every time so speeding up some of them doesn’t make the query faster, and queries occasionally taking longer (e.g because of garbage collection) will impact almost every request!

...

In this kind of domain you’ll often run into situations where in the worst case you can’t avoid processing a huge number of things. This means you need to focus your effort on making the best use of the hardware by writing code at a low level and paying attention to properties like cache size and memory bandwidth.

Projects with inviolable deadlines need to adjust different factors than speed if the code runs too slow. For example a game might decrease the size of a level or use a more efficient but less pretty rendering technique.

Aesthetically: Data should be tightly packed, fixed size, and linear. Transcoding data to and from different formats is wasteful. Strings and their variable lengths and inefficient operations must be avoided. Only use tools that allow you to work at a low level, even if they’re annoying, because that’s the only way you can avoid piles of fixed costs making everything slow. Understand the machine and what your code does to it.

Personally I identify this aesthetic most with Jonathan Blow. He has a very strong personality and I’ve watched enough of videos of him that I find imagining “What would Jonathan Blow say?” as a good way to tap into this aesthetic. My favourite articles about designs following this aesthetic are on the Our Machinery Blog.

...

Do Almost Nothing

Sometimes, it’s important to be as fast as you can in all cases and not just orient around one deadline. The most common case is when you simply have to do something that’s going to take an amount of time noticeable to a human, and if you can make that time shorter in some situations that’s great. Alternatively each operation could be fast but you may run a server that runs tons of them and you’ll save on server costs if you can decrease the load of some requests. Another important case is when you care about power use, for example your text editor not rapidly draining a laptop’s battery, in this case you want to do the least work you possibly can.

A key technique for this approach is to never recompute something from scratch when it’s possible to re-use or patch an old result. This often involves caching: keeping a store of recent results in case the same computation is requested again.

The ultimate realization of this aesthetic is for the entire system to deal only in differences between the new state and the previous state, updating data structures with only the newly needed data and discarding data that’s no longer needed. This way each part of the system does almost no work because ideally the difference from the previous state is very small.

Aesthetically: Data must be in whatever structure scales best for the way it is accessed, lots of trees and hash maps. Computations are graphs of inputs and results so we can use all our favourite graph algorithms to optimize them! Designing optimal systems is hard so you should use whatever tools you can to make it easier, any fixed cost they incur will be made negligible when you optimize away all the work they need to do.

Personally I identify this aesthetic most with my friend Raph Levien and his articles about the design of the Xi text editor, although Raph also appreciates the other aesthetic and taps into it himself sometimes.

...

_I’m conflating the axes of deadline-oriented vs time-oriented and low-level vs algorithmic optimization, but part of my point is that while they are different, I think these axes are highly correlated._

...

Text Editors

Sublime Text is a text editor that mostly follows the Never Miss a Frame approach. ...

The Xi Editor is designed to solve this problem by being designed from the ground up to grapple with the fact that some operations, especially those interacting with slow compilers written by other people, can’t be made instantaneous. It does this using a fancy asynchronous plugin model and lots of fancy data structures.
...

...

Compilers

Jonathan Blow’s Jai compiler is clearly designed with the Never Miss a Frame aesthetic. It’s written to be extremely fast at every level, and the language doesn’t have any features that necessarily lead to slow compiles. The LLVM backend wasn’t fast enough to hit his performance goals so he wrote an alternative backend that directly writes x86 code to a buffer without doing any optimizations. Jai compiles something like 100,000 lines of code per second. Designing both the language and compiler to not do anything slow lead to clean build performance 10-100x faster than other commonly-used compilers. Jai is so fast that its clean builds are faster than most compilers incremental builds on common project sizes, due to limitations in how incremental the other compilers are.

However, Jai’s compiler is still O(n) in the codebase size where incremental compilers can be O(n) in the size of the change. Some compilers like the work-in-progress rust-analyzer and I think also Roslyn for C# take a different approach and focus incredibly hard on making everything fully incremental. For small changes (the common case) this can let them beat Jai and respond in milliseconds on arbitrarily large projects, even if they’re slower on clean builds.

Conclusion
I find both of these aesthetics appealing, but I also think there’s real trade-offs that incentivize leaning one way or the other for a given project. I think people having different performance aesthetics, often because one aesthetic really is better suited for their domain, is the source of a lot of online arguments about making fast systems. The different aesthetics also require different bases of knowledge to pursue, like knowledge of data-oriented programming in C++ vs knowledge of abstractions for incrementality like Adapton, so different people may find that one approach seems way easier and better for them than the other.

I try to choose how to dedicate my effort to pursuing each aesthetics on a per project basis by trying to predict how effort in each direction would help. Some projects I know if I code it efficiently it will always hit the performance deadline, others I know a way to drastically cut down on work by investing time in algorithmic design, some projects need a mix of both. Personally I find it helpful to think of different programmers where I have a good sense of their aesthetic and ask myself how they’d solve the problem. One reason I like Rust is that it can do both low-level optimization and also has a good ecosystem and type system for algorithmic optimization, so I can more easily mix approaches in one project. In the end the best approach to follow depends not only on the task, but your skills or the skills of the team working on it, as well as how much time you have to work towards an ambitious design that may take longer for a better result.
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september 2019 by nhaliday
A Formal Verification of Rust's Binary Search Implementation
Part of the reason for this is that it’s quite complicated to apply mathematical tools to something unmathematical like a functionally unpure language (which, unfortunately, most programs tend to be written in). In mathematics, you don’t expect a variable to suddenly change its value, and it only gets more complicated when you have pointers to those dang things:

“Dealing with aliasing is one of the key challenges for the verification of imperative programs. For instance, aliases make it difficult to determine which abstractions are potentially affected by a heap update and to determine which locks need to be acquired to avoid data races.” 1

While there are whole logics focused on trying to tackle these problems, a master’s thesis wouldn’t be nearly enough time to model a formal Rust semantics on top of these, so I opted for a more straightforward solution: Simply make Rust a purely functional language!

Electrolysis: Simple Verification of Rust Programs via Functional Purification
If you know a bit about Rust, you may have noticed something about that quote in the previous section: There actually are no data races in (safe) Rust, precisely because there is no mutable aliasing. Either all references to some datum are immutable, or there is a single mutable reference. This means that mutability in Rust is much more localized than in most other imperative languages, and that it is sound to replace a destructive update like

p.x += 1
with a functional one – we know there’s no one else around observing p:

let p = Point { x = p.x + 1, ..p };
techtariat  plt  programming  formal-methods  rust  arrows  reduction  divide-and-conquer  correctness  project  state  functional  concurrency  direct-indirect  pls  examples  simplification-normalization  compilers 
august 2019 by nhaliday
multithreading - C++11 introduced a standardized memory model. What does it mean? And how is it going to affect C++ programming? - Stack Overflow
I like the analogy of abandonment of sequential consistency to special relativity tho I think (emphasis on *think*, not know...) GR might be actually be the more appropriate one
q-n-a  stackex  programming  pls  c(pp)  systems  metal-to-virtual  computer-memory  concurrency  intricacy  nitty-gritty  analogy  comparison  physics  relativity  advanced 
august 2019 by nhaliday
Panel: Systems Programming in 2014 and Beyond | Lang.NEXT 2014 | Channel 9
- Bjarne Stroustrup, Niko Matsakis, Andrei Alexandrescu, Rob Pike
- 2014 so pretty outdated but rare to find a discussion with people like this together
- pretty sure Jonathan Blow asked a couple questions
- Rob Pike compliments Rust at one point. Also kinda softly rags on dynamic typing at one point ("unit testing is what they have instead of static types").
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july 2019 by nhaliday
Which of Haskell and OCaml is more practical? For example, in which aspect will each play a key role? - Quora
- Tikhon Jelvis,

Haskell.

This is a question I'm particularly well-placed to answer because I've spent quite a bit of time with both Haskell and OCaml, seeing both in the real world (including working at Jane Street for a bit). I've also seen the languages in academic settings and know many people at startups using both languages. This gives me a good perspective on both languages, with a fairly similar amount of experience in the two (admittedly biased towards Haskell).

And so, based on my own experience rather than the languages' reputations, I can confidently say it's Haskell.

Parallelism and Concurrency

...

Libraries

...

Typeclasses vs Modules

...

In some sense, OCaml modules are better behaved and founded on a sounder theory than Haskell typeclasses, which have some serious drawbacks. However, the fact that typeclasses can be reliably inferred whereas modules have to be explicitly used all the time more than makes up for this. Moreover, extensions to the typeclass system enable much of the power provided by OCaml modules.

...

Of course, OCaml has some advantages of its own as well. It has a performance profile that's much easier to predict. The module system is awesome and often missed in Haskell. Polymorphic variants can be very useful for neatly representing certain situations, and don't have an obvious Haskell analog.

While both languages have a reasonable C FFI, OCaml's seems a bit simpler. It's hard for me to say this with any certainty because I've only used the OCaml FFI myself, but it was quite easy to use—a hard bar for Haskell's to clear. One really nice use of modules in OCaml is to pass around values directly from C as abstract types, which can help avoid extra marshalling/unmarshalling; that seemed very nice in OCaml.

However, overall, I still think Haskell is the more practical choice. Apart from the reasoning above, I simply have my own observations: my Haskell code tends to be clearer, simpler and shorter than my OCaml code. I'm also more productive in Haskell. Part of this is certainly a matter of having more Haskell experience, but the delta is limited especially as I'm working at my third OCaml company. (Of course, the first two were just internships.)

Both Haskell and OCaml are uniquivocally superb options—miles ahead of any other languages I know. While I do prefer Haskell, I'd choose either one in a pinch.

--
I've looked at F# a bit, but it feels like it makes too many tradeoffs to be on .NET. You lose the module system, which is probably OCaml's best feature, in return for an unfortunate, nominally typed OOP layer.

I'm also not invested in .NET at all: if anything, I'd prefer to avoid it in favor of simplicity. I exclusively use Linux and, from the outside, Mono doesn't look as good as it could be. I'm also far more likely to interoperate with a C library than a .NET library.

If I had some additional reason to use .NET, I'd definitely go for F#, but right now I don't.

https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3huexy/what_are_haskellers_critiques_of_f_and_ocaml/
https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/3huexy/what_are_haskellers_critiques_of_f_and_ocaml/cub5mmb/
Thinking about it now, it boils down to a single word: expressiveness. When I'm writing OCaml, I feel more constrained than when I'm writing Haskell. And that's important: unlike so many others, what first attracted me to Haskell was expressiveness, not safety. It's easier for me to write code that looks how I want it to look in Haskell. The upper bound on code quality is higher.

...

Perhaps it all boils down to OCaml and its community feeling more "worse is better" than Haskell, something I highly disfavor.

...

Laziness or, more strictly, non-strictness is big. A controversial start, perhaps, but I stand by it. Unlike some, I do not see non-strictness as a design mistake but as a leap in abstraction. Perhaps a leap before its time, but a leap nonetheless. Haskell lets me program without constantly keeping the code's order in my head. Sure, it's not perfect and sometimes performance issues jar the illusion, but they are the exception not the norm. Coming from imperative languages where order is omnipresent (I can't even imagine not thinking about execution order as I write an imperative program!) it's incredibly liberating, even accounting for the weird issues and jinks I'd never see in a strict language.

This is what I imagine life felt like with the first garbage collectors: they may have been slow and awkward, the abstraction might have leaked here and there, but, for all that, it was an incredible advance. You didn't have to constantly think about memory allocation any more. It took a lot of effort to get where we are now and garbage collectors still aren't perfect and don't fit everywhere, but it's hard to imagine the world without them. Non-strictness feels like it has the same potential, without anywhere near the work garbage collection saw put into it.

...

The other big thing that stands out are typeclasses. OCaml might catch up on this front with implicit modules or it might not (Scala implicits are, by many reports, awkward at best—ask Edward Kmett about it, not me) but, as it stands, not having them is a major shortcoming. Not having inference is a bigger deal than it seems: it makes all sorts of idioms we take for granted in Haskell awkward in OCaml which means that people simply don't use them. Haskell's typeclasses, for all their shortcomings (some of which I find rather annoying), are incredibly expressive.

In Haskell, it's trivial to create your own numeric type and operators work as expected. In OCaml, while you can write code that's polymorphic over numeric types, people simply don't. Why not? Because you'd have to explicitly convert your literals and because you'd have to explicitly open a module with your operators—good luck using multiple numeric types in a single block of code! This means that everyone uses the default types: (63/31-bit) ints and doubles. If that doesn't scream "worse is better", I don't know what does.

...

There's more. Haskell's effect management, brought up elsewhere in this thread, is a big boon. It makes changing things more comfortable and makes informal reasoning much easier. Haskell is the only language where I consistently leave code I visit better than I found it. Even if I hadn't worked on the project in years. My Haskell code has better longevity than my OCaml code, much less other languages.

http://blog.ezyang.com/2011/02/ocaml-gotchas/
One observation about purity and randomness: I think one of the things people frequently find annoying in Haskell is the fact that randomness involves mutation of state, and thus be wrapped in a monad. This makes building probabilistic data structures a little clunkier, since you can no longer expose pure interfaces. OCaml is not pure, and as such you can query the random number generator whenever you want.

However, I think Haskell may get the last laugh in certain circumstances. In particular, if you are using a random number generator in order to generate random test cases for your code, you need to be able to reproduce a particular set of random tests. Usually, this is done by providing a seed which you can then feed back to the testing script, for deterministic behavior. But because OCaml's random number generator manipulates global state, it's very easy to accidentally break determinism by asking for a random number for something unrelated. You can work around it by manually bracketing the global state, but explicitly handling the randomness state means providing determinism is much more natural.
q-n-a  qra  programming  pls  engineering  nitty-gritty  pragmatic  functional  haskell  ocaml-sml  dotnet  types  arrows  cost-benefit  tradeoffs  concurrency  libraries  performance  expert-experience  composition-decomposition  comparison  critique  multi  reddit  social  discussion  techtariat  reflection  review  random  data-structures  numerics  rand-approx  sublinear  syntax  volo-avolo  causation  scala  jvm  ecosystem  metal-to-virtual 
june 2019 by nhaliday
C++ Core Guidelines
This document is a set of guidelines for using C++ well. The aim of this document is to help people to use modern C++ effectively. By “modern C++” we mean effective use of the ISO C++ standard (currently C++17, but almost all of our recommendations also apply to C++14 and C++11). In other words, what would you like your code to look like in 5 years’ time, given that you can start now? In 10 years’ time?

https://isocpp.github.io/CppCoreGuidelines/
“Within C++ is a smaller, simpler, safer language struggling to get out.” – Bjarne Stroustrup

...

The guidelines are focused on relatively higher-level issues, such as interfaces, resource management, memory management, and concurrency. Such rules affect application architecture and library design. Following the rules will lead to code that is statically type safe, has no resource leaks, and catches many more programming logic errors than is common in code today. And it will run fast - you can afford to do things right.

We are less concerned with low-level issues, such as naming conventions and indentation style. However, no topic that can help a programmer is out of bounds.

Our initial set of rules emphasize safety (of various forms) and simplicity. They may very well be too strict. We expect to have to introduce more exceptions to better accommodate real-world needs. We also need more rules.

...

The rules are designed to be supported by an analysis tool. Violations of rules will be flagged with references (or links) to the relevant rule. We do not expect you to memorize all the rules before trying to write code.

contrary:
https://aras-p.info/blog/2018/12/28/Modern-C-Lamentations/
This will be a long wall of text, and kinda random! My main points are:
1. C++ compile times are important,
2. Non-optimized build performance is important,
3. Cognitive load is important. I don’t expand much on this here, but if a programming language or a library makes me feel stupid, then I’m less likely to use it or like it. C++ does that a lot :)
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june 2019 by nhaliday
Interview with Donald Knuth | Interview with Donald Knuth | InformIT
Andrew Binstock and Donald Knuth converse on the success of open source, the problem with multicore architecture, the disappointing lack of interest in literate programming, the menace of reusable code, and that urban legend about winning a programming contest with a single compilation.

Reusable vs. re-editable code: https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01966146/document
- Konrad Hinsen

https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/05/03/reusable-code-vs-re-editable-code/
I think whether code should be editable or in “an untouchable black box” depends on the number of developers involved, as well as their talent and motivation. Knuth is a highly motivated genius working in isolation. Most software is developed by large teams of programmers with varying degrees of motivation and talent. I think the further you move away from Knuth along these three axes the more important black boxes become.
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june 2019 by nhaliday
algorithm - Skip List vs. Binary Search Tree - Stack Overflow
Skip lists are more amenable to concurrent access/modification. Herb Sutter wrote an article about data structure in concurrent environments. It has more indepth information.

The most frequently used implementation of a binary search tree is a red-black tree. The concurrent problems come in when the tree is modified it often needs to rebalance. The rebalance operation can affect large portions of the tree, which would require a mutex lock on many of the tree nodes. Inserting a node into a skip list is far more localized, only nodes directly linked to the affected node need to be locked.
q-n-a  stackex  nibble  programming  tcs  data-structures  performance  concurrency  comparison  cost-benefit  applicability-prereqs  random  trees  tradeoffs 
may 2019 by nhaliday
Cilk Hub
looks like this is run by Billy Moses and Leiserson (the L in CLRS)
mit  tools  programming  pls  plt  systems  c(pp)  libraries  compilers  performance  homepage  concurrency 
may 2019 by nhaliday
unix - How can I profile C++ code running on Linux? - Stack Overflow
If your goal is to use a profiler, use one of the suggested ones.

However, if you're in a hurry and you can manually interrupt your program under the debugger while it's being subjectively slow, there's a simple way to find performance problems.

Just halt it several times, and each time look at the call stack. If there is some code that is wasting some percentage of the time, 20% or 50% or whatever, that is the probability that you will catch it in the act on each sample. So that is roughly the percentage of samples on which you will see it. There is no educated guesswork required. If you do have a guess as to what the problem is, this will prove or disprove it.

You may have multiple performance problems of different sizes. If you clean out any one of them, the remaining ones will take a larger percentage, and be easier to spot, on subsequent passes. This magnification effect, when compounded over multiple problems, can lead to truly massive speedup factors.

Caveat: Programmers tend to be skeptical of this technique unless they've used it themselves. They will say that profilers give you this information, but that is only true if they sample the entire call stack, and then let you examine a random set of samples. (The summaries are where the insight is lost.) Call graphs don't give you the same information, because they don't summarize at the instruction level, and
they give confusing summaries in the presence of recursion.
They will also say it only works on toy programs, when actually it works on any program, and it seems to work better on bigger programs, because they tend to have more problems to find. They will say it sometimes finds things that aren't problems, but that is only true if you see something once. If you see a problem on more than one sample, it is real.

http://poormansprofiler.org/

gprof, Valgrind and gperftools - an evaluation of some tools for application level CPU profiling on Linux: http://gernotklingler.com/blog/gprof-valgrind-gperftools-evaluation-tools-application-level-cpu-profiling-linux/
gprof is the dinosaur among the evaluated profilers - its roots go back into the 1980’s. It seems it was widely used and a good solution during the past decades. But its limited support for multi-threaded applications, the inability to profile shared libraries and the need for recompilation with compatible compilers and special flags that produce a considerable runtime overhead, make it unsuitable for using it in today’s real-world projects.

Valgrind delivers the most accurate results and is well suited for multi-threaded applications. It’s very easy to use and there is KCachegrind for visualization/analysis of the profiling data, but the slow execution of the application under test disqualifies it for larger, longer running applications.

The gperftools CPU profiler has a very little runtime overhead, provides some nice features like selectively profiling certain areas of interest and has no problem with multi-threaded applications. KCachegrind can be used to analyze the profiling data. Like all sampling based profilers, it suffers statistical inaccuracy and therefore the results are not as accurate as with Valgrind, but practically that’s usually not a big problem (you can always increase the sampling frequency if you need more accurate results). I’m using this profiler on a large code-base and from my personal experience I can definitely recommend using it.
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may 2019 by nhaliday
x86 - What does multicore assembly language look like? - Stack Overflow
This isn't a direct answer to the question, but it's an answer to a question that appears in the comments. Essentially, the question is what support the hardware gives to multi-threaded operation.

Nicholas Flynt had it right, at least regarding x86. In a multi threaded environment (Hyper-threading, multi-core or multi-processor), the Bootstrap thread (usually thread 0 in core 0 in processor 0) starts up fetching code from address 0xfffffff0. All the other threads start up in a special sleep state called Wait-for-SIPI. As part of its initialization, the primary thread sends a special inter-processor-interrupt (IPI) over the APIC called a SIPI (Startup IPI) to each thread that is in WFS. The SIPI contains the address from which that thread should start fetching code.

This mechanism allows each thread to execute code from a different address. All that's needed is software support for each thread to set up its own tables and messaging queues. The OS uses those to do the actual multi-threaded scheduling.

As far as the actual assembly is concerned, as Nicholas wrote, there's no difference between the assemblies for a single threaded or multi threaded application. Each logical thread has its own register set, so writing:

mov edx, 0
will only update EDX for the currently running thread. There's no way to modify EDX on another processor using a single assembly instruction. You need some sort of system call to ask the OS to tell another thread to run code that will update its own EDX.
q-n-a  stackex  programming  nitty-gritty  systems  assembly  concurrency  init 
may 2019 by nhaliday
What is "vectorization"? - Stack Overflow
Many CPUs have "vector" or "SIMD" instruction sets which apply the same operation simultaneously to two, four, or more pieces of data. Modern x86 chips have the SSE instructions, many PPC chips have the "Altivec" instructions, and even some ARM chips have a vector instruction set, called NEON.

"Vectorization" (simplified) is the process of rewriting a loop so that instead of processing a single element of an array N times, it processes (say) 4 elements of the array simultaneously N/4 times.

(I chose 4 because it's what modern hardware is most likely to directly support; the term "vectorization" is also used to describe a higher level software transformation where you might just abstract away the loop altogether and just describe operating on arrays instead of the elements that comprise them)
q-n-a  stackex  programming  systems  performance  concurrency  numerics  metal-to-virtual  assembly 
april 2019 by nhaliday
I don't understand Python's Asyncio | Armin Ronacher's Thoughts and Writings
Man that thing is complex and it keeps getting more complex. I do not have the mental capacity to casually work with asyncio. It requires constantly updating the knowledge with all language changes and it has tremendously complicated the language. It's impressive that an ecosystem is evolving around it but I can't help but get the impression that it will take quite a few more years for it to become a particularly enjoyable and stable development experience.

What landed in 3.5 (the actual new coroutine objects) is great. In particular with the changes that will come up there is a sensible base that I wish would have been in earlier versions. The entire mess with overloading generators to be coroutines was a mistake in my mind. With regards to what's in asyncio I'm not sure of anything. It's an incredibly complex thing and super messy internally. It's hard to comprehend how it works in all details. When you can pass a generator, when it has to be a real coroutine, what futures are, what tasks are, how the loop works and that did not even come to the actual IO part.

The worst part is that asyncio is not even particularly fast. David Beazley's live demo hacked up asyncio replacement is twice as fast as it. There is an enormous amount of complexity that's hard to understand and reason about and then it fails on it's main promise. I'm not sure what to think about it but I know at least that I don't understand asyncio enough to feel confident about giving people advice about how to structure code for it.
python  libraries  review  concurrency  programming  pls  rant  🖥  techtariat  intricacy  design  confusion  performance  critique 
october 2016 by nhaliday

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