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erlang  rust 
4 days ago by lenciel
Is Perl6 faster than Perl 5 on average? : perl6
https://tutorial.ponylang.org/ The only VM besides parrot with concurrency safety and not using copy-all. Erlang has a slow VM and passes everything as copy and is still fast (a IO bottleneck cost you min. 50x), but sharing makes the difference. And it's the fastest language around, faster than C++ with OpenMP. And proper syntax and types. Go is nice but limited, Rust is lying all over to its users such as perl5+6. Hype-driven development, such as perl6.

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[–]reini_urban 2 points 2 days ago
Rust allows memory unsafety: https://doc.rust-lang.org/1.14.0/book/unsafe.html which normal languages only need for their FFI. Here it's a keyword and used all over their stdlib.

Rust is concurrency unsafe. It does not protect from deadlocks and race conditions, but calls it "Fearless Concurrency" https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/second-edition/ch16-00-concurrency.html Instead you need to fear it, and work around with manual mutex and semaphores. Concurrency safety means the compilers does this for you, or the compiler avoids locks at all. Like parrot or pony do. Or fall back to copy-only, no shared data. Which is the desperate slow path Erlang and Go went. There refs are either read-only or copied.

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[–]reini_urban 0 points 9 hours ago
Or perhaps you accept the answer -- and accept that MoarVM could one day approach the JVM's abilities for some workloads -- but think C++ is not remotely the same deal as C.

Nobody in his sane mind will accept that.

This has nothing to do with cperl or perl5. These are dinosaurs and the slowest of all big dynamic languages. Only moar is slower, but that is not considered big.

It has to with analyzing the three fastest dynamic languages around: v8/javascript, and the two lua's with a jit: luajit (= tvmjit) and potion (= p2), which was based on a pre-luajit lua with classes and mop (for ruby). you can also look at guile btw. which would be an excellent backend, much better than moar. tvmjit is based on the very fastest dynamic language design, and got a very good nqp level compared to moar. 50x better and faster. 10x smaller. You could also at pypy/rpython or graal to the mix, but these are already the monsters like v8 or perl6. These can only be improved by a huge compiler expert group, and will never reach the luajit, potion or JVM levels, just by trashing the caches with their dynamic bloat.

If you look at these you'll see that moar will never ever reach any of these capabilities. And with the latest jit plans it became even worse. Startup time is at the JVM level, even worse. Remember perl6 is to be used mostly for smallish scripts, not huge programs and servers. Run-time is at the 100x slower level, not even the 10x slower level, where php,ruby,python,perl5 are. That's trivial to observe by looking at all the bloat carried around at runtime, and what it is compiled to. And the architectural design, as I said before. You can demand a native stdlib, as pypy or common lisp does, when you got a fast VM and compiler, but not with something like perl6/nqp/moar.

There are certain level's you can agree to reach and certain levels which are just out of reach. JVM or luajit/potion are totally out. Even perl5 seems to be out of reach. The typical Moose benchmark comparison is totally bogus, there's nothing worse designed than Moose. (Well, Distzilla would have to carry that bag, but we are talking about OO). You can compare it to the realistic and recommended OO systems in perl5, which are cperl and Mouse, and there perl6 looses badly. Given that perl5 has a horrible VM design, with its broken ABI and stack design, that's quite a feature.
choice_of  Programming_Language  Pony  Erlang  Perl  Perl6  Rust  CONs  Lus  LusJIT  Potion  VM  Parrot  Moar  Insightful  higher_quality  Urban_Reini  cperl 
6 days ago by snearch

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