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What is the Right Size for a Group Conversation? | Psychology Today
"Conversations are funny things.

If you have ever attended a large gathering of old friends and relatives whom you have not seen for a while, you may have gone home disappointed that you only got to speak to some of the people you had hoped to reconnect with. Similarly, you have probably noticed that when the gang from the office goes out for drinks after work on Friday afternoon, the large after-work crowd invariably splits up into smaller conversations.

Is there a natural limit to the size of the group that can sustain a meaningful conversation? Recent studies conducted by Jamie Krems and Steve Neuberg of Arizona State University and Robin Dunbar of Oxford University suggest that this may in fact be the case.

In their first study, they approached groups of two or more students engaged in conversations in public areas of a university campus. They asked the conversationalists to report what they had been talking about just before the researcher interrupted them. They found that there were rarely more than four people involved in a conversation at any one time, but what was perhaps even more interesting, they also found that if people were gossiping about another person who was not present, the size of the group averaged about one fewer person in size than if the group was discussing some other sort of topic.

In a second study, they analyzed the conversations in 10 different plays by William Shakespeare. Scholars have long been aware that the conversational patterns in Shakespearean plays accurately reflect the dynamics of real-life social interactions — which is one of the reasons their appeal has endured over time. If this is the case, it would be interesting to find out if Shakespeare applied the “maximum size of a conversation” rule to the characters in his plays. Krems and her colleagues discovered that no conversations in any of the plays they analyzed ever involved more than five characters, and they replicated the effect that scenes in which characters were discussing absent others had on average one less individual involved in the conversation.

So, what is so special about the number four (plus or minus one) when it comes to conversations?

Krems, Dunbar, & Neuberg propose that the size of our conversations is restricted by our “mentalizing constraints,” or the limits on the cognitive demands that we can handle in our interactions with others.

This is all related to what psychologists call our “Theory of Mind,” which is the ability to understand that other people do not necessarily know or intend the same things that we ourselves do; having a functioning theory of mind is essential for successfully managing social life. If two people are engaged in conversation, each must understand what his or her partner intends and what each person understands about the other’s state of mind.

This gets more complicated as you add people to the conversation. If you have three people (or stooges) in a conversation, Moe must understand what Larry understands about Moe and what Curly understands about Moe, but also what Larry and Curly understand about each other. Add a fourth or fifth person to the mix and you have increased the complexity enormously. Thus, it appears that when you move beyond four or five people in a conversation, it simply gets too mentally taxing for most people to sustain a prolonged conversation.

And there is a reason why talking about an absent person makes things even more difficult. In this type of talk, you must also be able to reflect on the understanding, intentions, and feelings of the absent person, which cuts back on the number of people we can manage in real time during the conversation. The data analyses in the two studies I have described indicated that this explanation was more plausible than other possible explanations for this phenomenon.

Certainly, other situational factors such as the arrangement of furniture can influence the ease of conversations. For example, although side-by-side seating connotes intimacy, it does not seem to be the preferred arrangement for talking. Studies have shown that side-by-side seating on a couch inhibits conversation in otherwise sociable people, and individuals only choose a side-by-side position for conversation when it was not possible to arrange a face-to-face conversation at a distance of less than 5 and ½ feet.

In other words, if it is good conversation that you are after at the next party that you attend, stay away from the couches.

The fascinating finding that our mentalizing capacity limits the size of our conversations has many implications. If individuals differ from each other in mentalizing capacity, it is possible that having the ability to juggle larger conversation sizes is one component of having good social skills — something with an obvious payoff. Krems and her colleagues also suggest that reading fiction may help us to expand our mentalizing capacity by exercising the ability to follow conversations in literature.

A silver lining for English majors after all?"
groups  groupsize  conversation  2017  shakespeare  robindunbar  jamiekrems  steveneuberg  discussion  sfsh 
yesterday by robertogreco
Historyonics: Place and the Politics of the Past
The talk that forms the basis for this post was written for the annual Gerald Aylmer seminar run by the Royal Historical Society and the National Archives, and was delivered on 29 February 2012. via Pocket
discussion  geo  history 
yesterday by kintopp
support for first-class place model by stoicflame · Pull Request #79 · FamilySearch/gedcomx · GitHub
You can clone with HTTPS or Subversion. Showing 11 unique commits by 1 author. via Pocket
discussion  forum  geo  methodology  places 
yesterday by kintopp
The most effective way to communicate an idea or belief is through a story
The most effective way to communicate an idea or belief is through a story
story  discussion 
yesterday by rcollings
Discourse - Civilized Discussion
Discourse is modern forum software for your community. Use it as a mailing list, discussion forum, long-form chat room, and more!
opensource  communication  forum  discussion  comment 
2 days ago by tedw
Vioxx | West Hunter
The Vigor study was submitted in February 2001. The New England Journal of Medicine, a few months later, found that the authors had failed to mention some strokes and heart attacks near the end of the trial. The authors used a cutoff for cardiovascular effects (bad news) that was earlier than the cutoff for gastrointestinal effects (good news). why? Because they were weasels, of course. There was a lot of money riding on this drug’s success.

Other people began to notice the increased heart risks – looking at data from HMOs and such. Merck fought back. There was an MD at Stanford that was concerned about Vioxx: Merck called up the dean of Stanford Medical School at home and warned him about possible loss of financial support: he told them to go fuck themselves.


Now it is true that there were studies that showed greater efficacy: 21 such were reported by Scott S. Reuben, former chief of acute pain at Baystate medical Center in Springfield Mass. But as it turns out, he made them all up. There’s is no evidence that Merck knew about this, but it does perhaps say something about the general climate in big pharma.

Merck knew the gist of this for four years before they pulled the plug on the drug. They had their their drug reps lie about cardio risks, threatened researchers and sued journals that talked about the emerging cardio risks. Few physicians were aware of these risks, even though a close reading of the journals would have suggested it – because hardly any physicians read the journals.

Epidemiologists think that Vioxx caused something like 40,000 deaths.


In the 70s corporations were the bad guys, whether they were or not. Today, billionaires are your friend.
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4 days ago by nhaliday

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